A town-hall discussion about health care is a dangerous place to be these days. The tone at these events has turned ugly and, at times, vicious; Thursday night, two boiled over into actual fighting--at one event in Florida, and at another in Missouri.
Democratic lawmakers are getting shouted down, and discussions about reform are being disrupted by angry conservatives who yell, scream, or chant over speakers. There has been a death threat and an effigy. Supporters of Demcoratic reform have deemed these people "angry mobs," shipped in by conservative Astroturfing organizations based in DC--dangerous, disrespectful, and manufactured.
So what do the organizers of the health care opposition say about this whole situation, this wave of aggression and, in its ugliest instances, raw insanity? They condemn the worst of the bad stuff, and, as for the rest, they say that people are just angry.
"If you get 1,000 people together, you always worry that five people in
that crowd are going to take it too far," FreedomWorks spokesman Adam
Brandon said.
His group has sought to mobilize its members (of which there are around
760,000 nationwide) to attend town-halls hosted by Democrats across the
country, and FreedomWorks provides information on its website about where and when Democrats will be holding town-halls this month, via Google Maps, along with talking points on health care and cap-and-trade energy reform to use at the events.
Brandon says his group in no way condones the violence, the death
threat made by a caller to Rep. Brad Miller's (D-NC) office, or the
hanging of Rep. Frank Kratovil (D-MD) in effigy--or, for that matter,
the disruptions and shouting we've seen on YouTube.
Similar death threats have been made against the FreedomWorks office, Brandon said.
"We have never advocated violence, we have never advocated disrupting a
town-hall," Brandon said. "You can be loud and vocal and definitely
passionate, but when you start trying to shout people down and drown it
out, you lose your effectiveness."
Town-halls are different from outdoor protests, held outside an event,
Brandon says. There, shouting and chanting is fine; inside, during a
discussion, it's not.
"I'm pleased that you're seeing fiscal conservatives staying
engaged in the process overall, and of course I would rather not see
the sexiest stuff that ends up on TV," Brandon said. "You'd rather not
see someone getting hung in effigy, and I want no part of that."
FreedomWorks will release a statement condemning some of that activity, Brandon said.
Americans for Prosperity, another group that's turned out members to
town-halls and provided information on where they're being held,
similarly condemns the vitriol...though it too is pleased with the
turnout.
Here's what AFP President Tim Phillips had to say in a statement posted to the group's website Monday, after the first few shoutings down occurred:
...We always promote a respectful exchange of ideas and civil behavior. In fact, I often say at events that we should "respect the office while making our voices heard." We never condone disruptive behavior.Both groups vehemently deny that they've ever promoted the strategies advocated by Bob MacGuffie, reportedly a volunteer with Tea Party patriots, in a memo obtained by ThinkProgress that encourages town-hall goers to "shout" and seek to "rattle" speakers.
It is disappointing to hear reports of some individuals acting inappropriately at some of the congressional events, though it should be made clear that the vast majority of Americans attending these congressional town hall meetings are acting in a respectful manner that still allows them to make their voices heard. We consistently remind our members to be courteous when making their voices heard and doing their civic duty...
FreedomWorks and AFP have "absolutely" never advised their members to follow those or similar guidelines, spokespeople for both groups say.
But is it incumbent upon these groups to try to stop this kind of behavior from happening? After all, that's what supporters of reform have implied: that these groups are responsible for the disruptive and threatening behavior. The Service Employees International Union, for its part, has begun circulating a pledge to members who attend town-hall meetings stating they'll keep discussion civil. Coincidentally, an SEIU member was apparently involved in the fight outside Rep. Russ Carnahan's (D) town-hall in Missouri.
On that point, FreedomWorks and AFP don't think it's their responsibility: they're not promoting the disruptions, and it's generally just people getting excited--plus the few bad eggs that Brandon mentioned--who are doing the shouting and the uglier activities, of which neither group wants any part.
Other than statements condemning the behavior, they don't have any plans to keep conservative reform opponents from getting rowdy.
If not through encouragement, then, why is this happening? Why have things gotten so tense--so deleterious to public debate of a serious issue?
They say people are just angry--at the prospect of Obama's reforms, at the White House for calling them an "angry mob," at members of Congress for simply "talking at" their town-hall audiences, at event organizers for allegedly shutting them out of events, and at the insinuation that their rage is manufactured.
The Twitter hashtag #iamthemob is filled with mockery at the "mob" accusation and claims that conservative anger is "manufactured" (in addition to a disturbing call today for reform protesters to "hurt" members of SEIU and ACORN "badly" if they see them at town-hall events, and an encouragement to bring firearms).
"Honestly it's only a small minority of people who are acting out. The majority of these people are interested citizens, who are interested in these issues," said AFP spokeswoman Amy Menefee.
"We started off with a few people who were acting inappropriately, and the response from the White House and from the left in general has been so disproportionate to what's been going on," Menefee said. "They were already angry in a genuine way about these issues. Now they're genuinely angry even more because the White House has basically taunted them and ridiculed them."
"The White House response has really changed what could have happened here," Menefee said.
"This is a fundamental change, and that's why people are so passionate," says FreedomWorks's Brandon, of Obama's reform initiative.
Now that supporters of health care reform are starting to turn out their own foot soldiers, Brandon suggested, tensions are running higher.
"This is kind of an explosive, combustible situation. The Obama supporterss are very passionate and very excited about their guy, and our folks are very passionate about what we believe in. When you get two people who are very passionate in the same room, it's gonna get hot. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, and when the Pittsburgh Steelers come to town, that gets hot," Brandon said.
He also cited claims that conservatives have been shut out of town-halls in favor of union members by event organizers.
There's no doubt that things have gotten crazy, particularly on the conservative side. Before the fighting Thursday night, it was conservatives who shouted down speakers, and it's continued to be that way: the Tea Party Patriots website posted video today of Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), the longest serving member in the history of the House of Representatives, getting shouted at aggressively from a few feet away by opponents of Democratic health reform.
Now that Democrats and the media have seized on this wave of viciousness, it presents a strategic problem (not just a behavioral one) for reform opponents: the image of a shouting mob threatens to become the face of reform opposition--the symbol of conservative efforts. And, while conservatives have dominated the town-halls and coverage of the August health debate so far, that's a distasteful image nonetheless.
The Democratic National Committee and the White House are calling them a "mob," and the phrase seems to have stuck. It's perpetuated with every YouTube video of unruly protesters disrupting a meeting.
Each disrupted town-hall is both a win and a loss for conservatives: another sales pitch for Obama's reforms has been blocked, and the new conservative grassroots have flexed their muscles once again--but it's also ugly, and it scores points for the other side by fitting into the "mob" narrative Democrats have, rather adroitly, chosen to hit back.
The town-hall episodes have put health care reform on the defensive; they've also made conservatives look unruly.
When asked if they're concerned that unruliness will jeopardize the anti-Democratic-reform efforts and turn people off, AFP and FreedomWorks don't seem that worried. They say they don't like it, but they're proud of the turnout they've generated to these meetings--apart from the people who scream and shout.
But they do say they hope things simmer down, at least a bit.
"If people would listen to what we're saying, maybe to what the people who are not shouting are saying, then that is more productive than shouting," Menefee said "So, right now, I'm not really that concerned, because I think people are gonna continue to go out to these meetings, and it's only the beginning of August right now, and obviously we hope that things will begin to calm down a bit."
Or, as Brandon puts it: "This is not PG rated. Political activism does take on an edge."
"FreedomWorks and AFP have "absolutely" never advised their members to follow similar guidelines, spokespeople for both groups say."
Did you check if they were winking when they gave you that quote?
Glenn Reynolds promoted constituents intimidating a representative, and he, FreedomWorks, and AFP are all part of the same libertarian/tea party circle. And, FreedomWorks promoted an incompetent attempt to block the stimuls. If those people had simply encouraged people to go to meetings and ask prosecutorial-style questions, we might have resolved these issues by now. Instead, they seem to have just wanted fodder for the Hannity show.
And, what's ironic is that those two organizations support massive immigration, something that would lead to higher healthcare costs and fewer healthcare resources in case of UHC.
Just like Schiavo, just like the Palin rallies, just like the racist Tea Parties. Talk about bringing guns. Keep it up, rightwingers. Show everyone what you're all about.
I'm reminded a lot of Schiavo. And of how well that went over with moderates.
Wackos: Don't let the government get its hands on Medicare!!!
Moderate Independents: Is this a joke?
Wackos: Death panels!
Moderate Independents: Where?
Wackos: I read it in an anonymous e-mail; don't try to tell me there are no death panels!
Palin: Death panels!
Moderate Independents: Right. So you people are crazy.
Per the quote Mithras pulls out below, this is what we who used to be in the middle are hearing. "The people who are not shouting" are not seen engaging with the shouters and trying to change their side's image. They're seen standing silent and supportive behind the hysterics, or quoted with "uh, yeah, death panels, heh heh."
Shorter Astroturfer:
That Palin effigy (which was gross), was a part of a pathetic halloween display on some idiot's private property. It was stupid but its a far cry from going to a public town hall meeting, and hanging your elected representative in effigy right before them, and an already vitriolic crowd. I thought the Palin effigy was a pathetic act by a pathetic person, who probably also had an equally pathetic sense of humor.
The story ran for a day, along with that other partisan halloween news story, of a McCain volunteer (who had a few management responsibilities), who unabashedly refused to give candy to the children of candidate Obama supporters (and actually quizzed them before denying them).
Both stories were broadcast by the media and roundly denounced by both campaigns. I voted for Obama, but just as a spectator, and previously a fan of McCain, I was completely disappointed with McCain for not denouncing the vitriol that was swept his rallies towards the end. It wasn't until that unstable babbling older woman embarrassed herself at a town hall, calling Obama a muslim, that he finally decided it was enough, and let the crowds know that Obama was a capable and respectable person (over the disappointed boos of the crowd.) He thought it was a fair trade off, and let those people persist in their fear & delusion, however dangerous it was for themselves, our country, and the supporters of his opposition. The minority of furious people in the teabag and health care town hall meetings, are a direct extension of that rancor his campaign goaded and let fester for their short-term benefit. I'm worried that these people have invested so much of themselves in this stuff (having likely acted similarly in the presence of friends & family), that they'll become too committed to a point, that it is psychologically easier to embrace the lie tot he point of destruction of themselves and others, rather than to come to term with the embarrassment and hurt they've created for themselves.
Most of the people on the left I read seemed to get quite the chuckle when Palin was hung in effigy - why is it a big thing when it's a Dem's image in the noose?
That's funny, because I don't remember anybody on the left chuckling at Palin in effigy. It was a grotesque act.
I don't remember this. I remember the right saying this without providing evidence.
msully:
Stop suggesting this and did up some evidence.
That Palin effigy (which was gross), was a part of a pathetic halloween display on some idiot's private property. It was stupid but its a far cry from going to a public town hall meeting, and hanging your elected representative in effigy right before them, and an already vitriolic crowd. I thought the Palin effigy was a pathetic act by a pathetic person, who probably also had an equally pathetic sense of humor.
The story ran for a day, along with that other partisan halloween news story, of a McCain volunteer (who had a few management responsibilities), who unabashedly refused to give candy to the children of candidate Obama supporters (and actually quizzed them before denying them).
Both stories were broadcast by the media and roundly denounced by both campaigns. I voted for Obama, but just as a spectator, and previously a fan of McCain, I was completely disappointed with McCain for not denouncing the vitriol that was swept his rallies towards the end. It wasn't until that unstable babbling older woman embarrassed herself at a town hall, calling Obama a muslim, that he finally decided it was enough, and let the crowds know that Obama was a capable and respectable person (over the disappointed boos of the crowd.) He thought it was a fair trade off, and let those people persist in their fear & delusion, however dangerous it was for themselves, our country, and the supporters of his opposition. The minority of furious people in the teabag and health care town hall meetings, are a direct extension of that rancor his campaign goaded and let fester for their short-term benefit. I'm worried that these people have invested so much of themselves in this stuff (having likely acted similarly in the presence of friends & family), that they'll become too committed to a point, that it is psychologically easier to embrace the lie tot he point of destruction of themselves and others, rather than to come to term with the embarrassment and hurt they've created for themselves.
That Palin effigy (which was gross), was a part of a pathetic halloween display on some idiot's private property. It was stupid but its a far cry from going to a public town hall meeting, and hanging your elected representative in effigy right before them, and an already vitriolic crowd. I thought the Palin effigy was a pathetic act by a pathetic person, who probably also had an equally pathetic sense of humor.
The story ran for a day, along with that other partisan halloween news story, of a McCain volunteer (who had a few management responsibilities), who unabashedly refused to give candy to the children of candidate Obama supporters (and actually quizzed them before denying them).
Then you've been reading some pretty odd people on the left.
I don't remember Palin being hung in effigy. Can you provide a link to a reputable news sources (World Net Daily doesn't count, btw)?
Ok, Chris, let's get down to it: these people are angry because they have been fed vicious lies. Your question should be: who is responsible for those lies? And do you really don't know the answer?
What's striking to me is just how ignorant and paranoid some of these protesters are. The guy pushing his child in the wheelchair who claims with absolute certainty that the government is going to kill his son is a complete lunatic. He's not an astroturf plant and he may be pretty apolitical on most things. But he's absolutely insane and paranoid.
Let's face it: there are a lot of ignorant and paranoid people out there. They are all across the political spectrum - the truthers and the elaborate conspiracy theorists regarding Bush are every bit as offensive as these idiots.
What's sad is that the anti-reform mob is encouraging the certifiably insane here instead of wincing and putting up a more reasonable voice
Chris:
Why do you let the guy from AFP lie to you? Or have you never heard of YouTube?
The anti-reform mob lost the last election, their leadership is fragmented, they have no new ideas and all their old ones got us into this mess, so they really have nothing to lose by letting these crazies run the show. When you have nothing to lose, you can take more risks.
I'm afraid this town hall craziness will all end badly. Either someone will get shot at one of these meetings or one of the older guys will work himself up so much that he strokes out. I can see the headlines now - "Man Shot at Meeting Bankrupted by Hospital Stay" and "Stroke Victim Says 'Medicare's Got Me Covered.'"
Good point about nothing to lose and taking more risks. The anti-mob needs to be somewhat hypervigilant at this point and brace themselves. No one who abuses power gives up without a fight. If we expect it we can prepare our inner resources for the process of working to move our country forward in the face of their decompensation.
Obama said he would hit the protesters back - and he did. SEIU brown shirts funded by the government attacked an innocent protester. This is fascism. Mussolini did the same thing. It is the responsibility of every patriot to fight this with everything they have. Attend Town Halls and show up with a camera. Show everyone the thugs that represent our government in action. Does anyone believe the SEIU thugs have any ideology beyond a simple gang mentality that licks the hand that feeds them? Do you think they could name even ONE program outlined in the bill? They were interested only in intimidation and it is up us as Americans to say NO, WE WILL NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY OUR GOVERNMENT OR ITS THUGS. NO WE WILL NOT ALLOW IT!
What's with the shouting? Is your ALL CAPS key broken, AGAIN? Really, shouting is just another form of violence. If you can't keep it calm, you need to take a breath, go home, and have a beer. Everyone gets a little upset at times, but the paranoid reactionism, the calls for the war against your opponents...Get real. The absence of any rationality is utterly amazing, and I can only attribute it to a deep-seated hatred that has been held, long in check, by some really crude social mechanisms: Nascar, football, a case of Coors, TV, guns. It has nothing to do with healthcare, I'm sure. It has nothing to do with tea parties. It has nothing to do with fascism, socialism, communism or any other "ism"...It's all about fear of Others, and fear of change. Fear of people who do not look like you, who do not share your religious, social, or political values, who are not from around here, or even from America. Fear of losing what little they think they have. It is racism, ignorance and stupidity, all rolled into one foul, angry, nasty package. It is the feeling of impotence in the face of impending change, and the loss of a sense of control that comes from not having someone in the White House that looks like you, or talks like you, or thinks like you. It is about being duped by one group, and then having the temerity to get angry at another group, who stand in opposition to the first, for "being lied to". It is about turning the violence and hatred and anger they use inside to control themselves against the people they're most afraid of. This is a group of people who, night after night, stuff themselves full of fear, hatred, anger with a steady stream of Fox News broadcasts and Rush Limbaugh programs, who are easily worked into a lather over things they don't understand, can't control, and let's be honest, don't really give a sh*t about.
I've always been opposed to healthcare reform. I know I'm going to get screwed. I know I'm going to have to pay for the fatty stupids. But there is no way I could ever side with THEM, the dummies who walk around in an alternating state of being dazed and confused, or full of rage, who, after being handed the greatest socioeconomic gift that genetics, time, and place could ever hand them, which is to be born as a white American middle class citizen, can do nothing but scream at the "unfairness" of it all.
How pathetic, to be afraid of a black man. How pathetic that all you can do is shout. How pathetic that the only way to demonstrate your "superiority" is to threaten or carry out violence against your fellow citizens. Over healthcare reform.
According to Mr Gallop's poll of 8/06/09: "Since April, there has been a significant increase in the percentage of Americans who say the tone and level of civility between Republicans and Democrats in Washington have gotten worse since Barack Obama was elected president, from 24% to 35%. The plurality of Americans continue to perceive no change in this regard....Much of this change is due to the views of rank and file Republicans....Independents' and Democrats' views have not changed much since April."
So actually, the proper wording of this story is that Repub's are getting angrier and angier. David Frum (newmajority-dot-com) has a story about the increasing fever in AM talk radio; every wingnut mic-shouter has to grow more extreme to protect his piece of that turf in a declining market. The 'Birther' narrative of an outsider taking over has suffused the right.
Dems, hell, we just don't like being threatened and shouted down. What a shock.
.....Personally I'm for giving these idiots all the rope they need......We can absolutely count on human emotions trumping commonsense as these things heat up and that means you can also absolutely guarantee that these Renta mobs will do something completely stupid and over the top just as they did during the Palin rallies during the election. They just can't help themselves and today with YOUTUBE and the internet the nooses, hitler/obama pics, fights et al are going to be all over the country within hours.......so go knock yourself out JohnMcC....attaboy
The degree to which one has to shout to make one's point is inversely proportional to the strength of the argument being made. ALL CAPS indicates a similar relationship.
somehow, i'm more convinced by the piano player in the cat house who swore that he had no idea what was going on upstairs.
The dialogue or lack there of between the left and right has noticibly broken down well before the recent "Town Hall" shouting and brawling matches. Aquaintenances have recently discontinued correspondence with me who are on the opposite side of issues as we cannot seem to find a common ground and it is not appreciated that I voice an opposing opinion. I lean left, support healthcare reform (single payor), have opposed the wars, you get the idea.
I think our country is more divided than ever and this is a larger problem than any of "the issues". Someone is going to get hurt or possibly killed...its only a matter of time, and that is not accceptable to me. But I do not know what to do to find a common thread. The tools are used up.
I oppose violence, shouting above people, speaking about a subject without taking the time to find the facts. May I use a broad brush....these "Patriots" at the town halls are being spoon fed about how to act and what to say, and they are taking my time from hearing about the issues and presenting opposing or agreeable viewpoints.
This is not democracy or freespeach in action, this is fearmongering and rebellion and not representative of the majority in this country.
This is another example of the core Rovian strategy at play. Accuse your opponents of that of which you are guilty.
I was wondering how long it would take for fake death threats to show up as a convenient excuse to avoid face-to-face meetings with constituents. It's sad to have to say, but I believe those claims need to be publicly backed up with proof of both the call/email [put them on the air], as well as evidence that the purported threats have been properly reported to both local/state police and when appropriate, the FBI.
SublimeWoody, if you're talking about Brad Miller who received a death threat last week, it hasn't been used as a convenient excuse to avoid anything. He didn't have any town halls scheduled anyway, and since the threat he has been holding one-on-one meetings with constituents. If you live in Miller's district, why don't you call his office and schedule one?
While a few conservative protesters at events have apparently been rowdy, confess I'm getting tired of liberals all of a sudden getting worried about the 1st Amendment rights of people. It's almost impossible for a conservative speaker to talk on a college campus. I also don't remember the anti-Bush protests of 2005 as being entirely courteous.
This morning I went to "Coffee with Cleaver." [Rep. Cleaver is my local Democratic congressman in the Kansas City, Mo and eastern suburbs area. I went because I saw the event on Rep. Cleaver's web site.] Several hundred people turned out; a little more than half were against ObamaCare. Rep. Cleaver talked to two or three people at a time. Thus my wife and I never got to say a word to him. The signs of the Obama supporters were almost all professionally made. People from Organizing for America were circulating a petition. [So much for astro-turfing!] Many of the anti-ObamaCare posters were home-made. The conservatives that I talked to were sick and tired of the federal government trying to take over our lives, spend us into oblivion, and cram socialized medicine down our throats.
Jacob Turk, a local Republican who had unsuccessfully run against Rep. Cleaver, was there, drumming up support another run. I told him I thought Rep. Cleaver would have to be found guilty of an axe-murder before he'd lose, so I asked him why he thought he could defeat this long-time liberal incumbent (who happens to be black). He said Rep. Cleaver had lost some support in the black community. In fact a black college student was handing out his literature. Thus, in the current political climate, he thought he had a reasonable chance to win.
All in all, people on both sides were civil and exercised their 1st Amendment rights, as it should be.
With the exception of a single "tweet" from John McCain, hardly a hero-worthy effort, there has been no GOP leader willing to stand up and condemn media personalities' recent vile spew and the rabid discourse from protesters.
This is a picture of what American has become: a bigoted, bombastic radio blowhard describes our President as a racist, a fascist, and a Chicago thug; he wishes Obama to fail; a senator vows to "kill" healthcare reform and "defeat Obama;" another compares the President to Hitler; a U.S. Representative describes healthcare protests and pantomimes a "lynching;" another claims that Obama's "socialist agenda" will "put people in internment camps;" a juiced up TV personality acts out the poisoning of the Speaker of the House: an angry, immigrant-hating newscaster joins the birther movement and refuses to accept legal proof of the President's citizenship; a former VP candidate's Facebook page claims Obamacare "death squads" threaten her parents' and infant handicapped son's lives; Republican Senators spread outright lies about a "government takover" of healthcare, "rationed care," "euthanization of the elderly," "financing abortions," and "mandating sex change operations;" organized and instructed by religious groups and corporations, hateful, angry Mobs disrupt and intimidate townhall meetings; protesters carrying signs covered with swastikas and images of Hitler, prevent reasonable discussion, and compare our President to Hitler; majority leader Sen. John Boehner, RNC Chairman Michael Steele, and others condone the outrageous behavior of the rabid conservative fringe. These words, images, and actions are no accident. It is a concerted effort to gin up hate and anger to incite violence while providing the instigators deniability.
Obviously, Republican leadership is content to have others do their political dirty work for them. The fear-mongering and threats have escalated far beyond the point of civility and decency. There is a pathetic lack of leadership, integrity, and honor in the Republican Party. The Party of No, can add "no sense of decency or democracy" to their credentials. It seems that Republicans would rather concede power to the likes of Rush Limbaugh than uphold the standards of decency and democracy in American. Shame on them.
The ugliness is bi-partisan...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/back-story/2009/aug/08/georgia-democrat-rages-against-local-doctor-over-h/
You can't disagree with the Democrat party line without getting screamed at by your Member of Congress, apparently.
The adoption by the Atlantic's editorial staff of epithets such as "birthers" and "Astroturfers" to describe human beings shows a curious lack of objectivity and even-handedness. Surely, dissent is still one of the foundations of our cherished freedoms in this country.
If the Atlantic chose to describe protesters against the (insert theater of your choice) war as "commies" and "freaks," there would be justifiable harrumphing about the essential place of dissent in American democracy.
Certainly, the "Astroturf" phenomenon is something the right wing learned from the McAuliffe DNC's shuttling of the same left-wing protesters from Republican venue to Republican venue during the 2004 election.
Where was the Atlantic then, or when moveon.org was comparing George Bush to Hitler, or taking full-page ads in the NYT about "General Betrayus"?
It's a little late NOW to complain about upholding the standards of decency and democracy in America. When it was still angling for power instead of enjoying it, the left wing was perfectly happy to see those same standards completely abandoned by its own extremists. Hypocrites.
In case we've forgotten the manners of the left wing during organized protests, we can always go down to the video store and look for Jed Weintrob's "The F Word," a mockumentary which sought to cast the leftist protestors at the 2004 Republican National Convention as saints:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0447953/?c=1
is the Internet Movie Database's page on the film, which captures much of its flavor - an uncritical endorsement of hurled obscenities and other harassment of innocent citizens on their way to a political convention - as long as, of course, the right people are doing it.
I didn't notice that the Atlantic or its readers arose in indignation over either Terry McAuliffe's orchestration of these obscenities and his four-year campaign as head of the Democratic National Committee to "get everyone in this country hating George Bush" (this was just after Bush was sworn in after the 2000 election).
I'm sorry, but as a political independent, I can't bring myself to get highly worked up over what are, by comparison, mild protests over a health plan that is being railroaded through Congress with little or no public discussion.
I'd rather see these protests than no discussion at all, which is what the Democratic Party and the White House apparently would prefer - they learned a lesson from when the Clintons opened a national discussion on the merits and drawbacks of nationalized health care - the people rejected it (and the Congress which tried to ram it down our throats, in 1994).
Let's have another nationwide, open discussion of this health plan. We shouldn't be asked to take a drastic opening of our healthcare system to all of the corruption and waste we know the Federal government is politically committed to perpetuating. The one thing I DON'T want is my healthcare being run the way FEMA ran the recovery of the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina.
Re: I can't bring myself to get highly worked up over what are, by comparison, mild protests over a health plan that is being railroaded through Congress with little or no public discussion.
Are you posting from an alternate universe? There's been vast public discussion of the reform proposals. You need go no further than the Atlantic's website to find lots of debate, civil and otherwise, on the matter. And unlike Bush's Social Security prposals in 05, this was a major theme of Obama's campaign last year. It's not like he suddenly pulled this out of thin air after being inaugurated. People had a chance to actually vote on this last year, and the results are in. If they change their minds, there's another election coming up. That's what elections are for.
I'll let others talk about hypocrisy or bias ... I have a very basic point to make for anyone who thinks a National Health Care system is a good idea.
There is no right to health care unless we are willing to give up the freedom to eat and drink what we want when we want.
The only way to make a tax supported health care system work is to FORCE people to be healthy - there is not enough money to pay for it otherwise.
And the Federal government would be told how to force us to be healthy by Congress, which will be guided by lobbyists for everything from the slaughterhouses of Chicago (the President's home constituency) to the people who make NutraSweet (an artificial sweetener STILL on the market despite clear evidence it breaks down to the carcinogen formaldehyde in the body - or just when exposed to enough heat).
Politicizing health care is NOT an improvement over the current state. We already have Medicaid for those who meet the income tests; expanding that program but keeping a market-driven healthcare industry, and eliminating the trial law's license to pick our pockets through bogus malpractice suits (the costs of which we, the patients and insureds pay) would make much, much more sense than turning our current healthcare system into AMTRAK with a scalpel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4F_cb9AXk
Shows what happened at Kathy Castro (D-FL)'s town hall meeting at Tampa Bay, Florida - her own constituents were blocked from entry until SEIU and other union supporters could be brought in to fiil the room; those who came into the room with Castro and/or union supporters but were recognized as not being part of the supporter group were ejected from the hall by big union goons.
The violence at these events is bi-partisan in nature. Until both sides of the problem are explored, reporting of these events as though "Astroturfers" were the prime problem is just another way in which the mainstream media are letting themselves be used by the current administration to manage the news in order to silence legal dissent.