It's August, and lawmakers are back in their home states talking to constituents. Liberals and conservatives alike will show up to town-hall meetings and other events to question their elected officials--sometimes loudly--about health care and the rest of Washington's business, as lawmakers make the case for their own agenda. When passions run high, debate can be spirited. We'll be watching.
It would be naive to say that things are "getting" out of hand: town-hall meetings in Tampa, Florida and Mehlville, Missouri boiled over into shoving, fighting and arrests Thursday night, marking the craziest day of the escalating recess town-halls yet. Earlier this week, there was a protester who hung Rep. Frank Kravotil (D-MD) in effigy, and a death threat against Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC)--both disturbing developments to be sure. But last night there was actual violence.
In Tampa, a town-hall meeting hosted by Rep. Kathy Castor (D) erupted
into some shoving amid chants of "you work for us!" The Tampa Tribune reports at least two scuffles, with a photo of one town-hall goer standing outside with his shirt ripped and a scratch across his chest. Here's video from YouTube:
"You've got to understand -- we're at a very volatile situation, we've got 800 people and we've got to maintain order," [St. Louis County Police Spokesman Rick] Echkard said Friday morning. "They did what they had to do."...A conservative activist says he was assaulted outside the event; two supporters of President Obama's health care reforms say they were attacked by police from behind.
The forum drew an overflow crowd of several hundred to Bernard Middle School gym in south St. Louis County. Dozens of people, many carrying signs about the health care debate, were kept out because of the turnout. The back and forth between factions within the crowd created a carnival-like atmosphere inside and out between members of the movement opposing President Barack Obama's policies and groups who came to show support for the president's proposals.
Here's video of a confrontation, apparently involving some SEIU members. A man in a purple shirt lies on the street (later we see him wearing a button reading "We Can't Wait"--an SEIU health care slogan), scuffling with another man in a tan shirt. Another man screams at one of the other purple-shirted town-hall goers, "You attacked him!" Amid the screams, the man in the tan shirt alleges being pushed:
The Rubicon has been crossed.
Eagerly awaiting Marc Ambinder's post saying that this is just like when the Democrats were protesting Bush's plan for Social Security.
Eagerly awaiting more people claiming that somehow it's all the fault of people opposing the reforms, and that the SEIU members can't possibly be at fault.
I wonder if the right will defend their arrests due to the fact that they were disrespectful towards a police officer, or does that only matter in Cambridge?
I wonder if the right will defend their arrests due to the fact that they were disrespectful towards a police officer, or does that only matter in Cambridge?
I'd like to second KatR. Maybe my memory is hazy, but this seems just slightly different from 2005...
KatR is on the right track.
Of course, FreedomWorks, CPR, Glenn Beck, & Limbaugh had nothing to do with the events occurringf at these town halls.
Just a spontaneous outpouring of rage and hatred directed at a modest reform plan, right Mark?
I am dismayed and slightly embarassed to say that any of the people at the rallies/town hall meetings that perpetuated violence are considered to be "Americans".
Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush are embarassments to society (as are many in the entertainment business).
I occassionally listen to some of these guys, but lately the middle-school ranting about the sky falling is getting boring and counter-productive.
I do agree with them that citizens have the right to be heard and protest against opposing ideas. However, the stirring of the pot while being able to sit back and essentially say, It wasn't me, is detestable.
Still, Nancy Pelosi claiming that people are showing up with swastikas at these townhall meetings is also idiotic on the other side. She's just as bad, if not more clueless.
For Americans to fight Americans for any reason, even an emotional one, means our law-makers have lost credibility of the people and control over their own processes. Disgusting!
Both sides need to shut the F up, calm down and listen first, then decide what to (peaceably) protest. While the law-makers need to pull their heads out of the sand (and their asses) and be the leaders that the people expect.
You need to see this... Pelosi is right.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/pelosi-swastikas/
ok, my bad. I was unaware of that. I apologize.
However, I still stand by my call for calm. These people have gotten out of hand no matter what party they claim.
We do have to remember that there are people of both parties that are opposed to (and for)this health care plan.
I guess I'm just tired of all the mountain-out-of-mole hill tactics of both sides.
Nobody needs to "shut the F up!" What needs to happen is for the Congressional and Senate representatives to start listening to their constituents instead of their influential "buddies." The people are frustrated because our government no longer listens to us. The only time they listen is AFTER something bad happens. And if they don't start listening and responding to the desires of the majority this is only going to get worse. What needs to happen is for the American people to send a strong message to these clowns and let them know, in no uncertain terms, that they will be voted out if they don't start doing the bidding of their constituents instead of following their own agendas. The idiots who keep voting the same people into office over and over send the message that no matter what the rep does, he'll get re-elected. That's BS! There are too many people out there that have no clue. Liberty is worth dying for and too many Americans are seeing it slip between the cracks, into the sea of oppression. You can't just believe everything someone tells you. You've got to put two and two together and start making intelligent decisions from the head and not so much from the heart. If this doesn't happen, you ain't seen nothin' yet!
I am dismayed and slightly embarassed to say that any of the people at the rallies/town hall meetings that perpetuated violence are considered to be "Americans".
Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush are embarassments to society (as are many in the entertainment business).
I occassionally listen to some of these guys, but lately the middle-school ranting about the sky falling is getting boring and counter-productive.
I do agree with them that citizens have the right to be heard and protest against opposing ideas. However, the stirring of the pot while being able to sit back and essentially say, It wasn't me, is detestable.
Still, Nancy Pelosi claiming that people are showing up with swastikas at these townhall meetings is also idiotic on the other side. She's just as bad, if not more clueless.
For Americans to fight Americans for any reason, even an emotional one, means our law-makers have lost credibility of the people and control over their own processes. Disgusting!
Both sides need to shut the F up, calm down and listen first, then decide what to (peaceably) protest. While the law-makers need to pull their heads out of the sand (and their a**es) and be the leaders that the people expect.
Warning the following video contains acts of actual journalism:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpblg
Sorry for the double post
This is a thoroughly dishonest piece on these town halls by Ambinder...
Trying to remain "fair and balanced" here, Marc overlooks the hard fact that these town halls are out of control because the right wing...including "astroturf" Republican organizations and rancid television personalities, have been encouraging their readers and followers to do anything they can to disrupt these events, including shouting down any attempt at reasonable conversations about health care.
This is not democracy in action...it's rampaging mobs of Republicans trying to stifle any sane dialog on something this country desperately needs!
C'mon Marc, you can do better than this drivel!
Did you read his interview with the AHIP lobbyist earlier this week?
I don't think he can do any better than this.
"Rampaging Republicans"... of course, no sensible democrat would oppose this, would they? It's only wingnut GOP members. Right, er, I mean correct... no offense.
So, do you want a piece that merely reinforces your narrow worldview? The Daily Kos is just a click away.
Well, it takes two to have a fight. It seems silly to blame only those opposing Obama's plans. Supporters of Obama's plans seemed to have embroiled themselves as well. Besides, what's with the call to arms of union members? It's like an old-style bully tactic.
Democrats are making a mistake taking this approach to dissidents. They do not have history on their side.
The tactic of shouting down politicians who support national health care set the tone for all of this. That's why the opponents are being blamed in large part. They were trying to bully politicians into backing down.
If a politician came to a town hall meeting, and 90% of the people politely told them that they didn't support this health care plan, it would go away very quickly. But that isn't happening (no side has a clear public support advantage), so the opponents are trying to amplify their influence by making a royal stink. It's dishonest, aggressive, and was guaranteed to elicit a reaction.
Violence is never acceptable, but it was an obvious outcome of the style of protest that was undertaken by the right.
By the way, I actually don't support this health care plan. I think the main problem is the way physicians' pay is tied to the number of procedures ordered (the incentives lead to higher health care costs, and these plans won't fix that). However, I find the behavior of some of these health care opponents so despicable that I almost wish they'd lose. We cannot let important decisions be made by a minority of screaming psychopaths.
Obama's gonna kill Grandma?
See:
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/obama-wants-to-kill-your-grandma/
I am embarrassed for the Republican Party. It is marginalizing itself into an almost violent fringe group. First the Brooks Brother Brigade of 2000 that violently broke up Florida recounts. Now this. Rallying behind shills like Hannity and Limbaugh the Republican Party is literally inciting riotous behaviors in an effort to disrupt transparent, grassroots debate.
The Republican Party is digging its own grave.
And perhaps it is well it should.
Here is to the final demise of the party of Lincoln and one which used to carry my devotion and respect.
Concern trolling at its finest!