In an interview with author John Meroney, provocateur Gore Vidal has some choice words about politics. In the primaries, he supported Hillary Clinton. Here's what he says about Barack Obama:
"... And I've always
been very pro-African-American - or whatever phrase we now use. I was
curious to see what would happen when their time came. I was delighted
when Obama appeared on the scene. But now it seems as though our
original objection to him - that experience mattered - was well-founded."
And here's Vidal on Ted Kennedy's legacy:
Read the rest, here.It's nothing. But I predicted that at the beginning, when Jack started backing him for his U.S. Senate seat. Historian Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., who was a loyal Kennedy courtier, agreed. But Jack was funny about it. He never took Arthur seriously. He always called him "the movie critic." (Imitating JFK's accent) "What does 'the movie critic' have to say about this issue?" He liked to tease Arthur.







Where's the follow-up question asking for an explanation on this?
Who needs a follow-up question? Vidal made it quite clear which side he's on, and we need to take action now. I am currently organizing book burnings at locations in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and NYC. Bring all your old copies of Myra Breckenridge and let's show Vidal the value of Hope and Change!
Oh, time travel (back to the bronze age) made possible for such candid and consequent reasoning.
Exclamation.
I've just walked an important distance into understanding what vile is.
Just curious... why burn his books and not his house, his own books, his car, his clothes, his hair? Or medieval exercices of that like are just tourism for news reporters?
You will forgive me, but I must question you intelligence; I am hoping that you will reply that your cat stepped and walked on your keyboard for a while. (And praying.)
Clinton has been so utterly ineffectual as Secretary of State that I have a hard time believing any but her loyal supporters agree with Mr. Vidal that we would be better off with her experience in the Oval.
So Vidal's support for Obama was based on on being pro African American (or whatever phrase we now use) along with curiosity about what would happen when their time came. The vacuousness is stunning.
My goodness, aren't we the only important person on the planet!
I've read the entire interview. Over the years, I never paid attention to Gore Vidal, never thinking he was actually contributing very much to the conversation except his own sense of self-importance. This interview convinces me that ignoring him was a good decision. I shall now resume not paying any attention to him.
I know 3 things about Gore Vidal-
He wrote some historical novel on Lincoln or something like that.
He used to debate Bill Buckley.
Lisa Simpson once said about Mr. Vidal, "He's kissed more boys than I have."
That is all.
Duder,
You forgot he also made a movie about Billy the Kid.
This guys (Vidal) comments about women are right out of another (thankfully over) age. He belongs in a museum.
Brian
I actually didn't know about the movie. But please, no more information about Mr. Vidal. I have now definitely filled up all the brain space i can devote to the man.
I don't know if he ever had it -- I haven't lived that long -- but Vidal certainly doesn't have his fastball now. I wish I had the audio of his Polanski answers.
Sasha Baron Cohen got him pretty good, and it looks like he deserved it.
Does Gore Vidal have any experience actually doing anything other than pontificating? At least Buckley tried for public service.
With respect to Gore Vidal's comments on the Polanski case, please refer to the depositions given at the time by Susan Gailey and Jill Malick Jakes.
What a whole bunch of useless blather
I read the entire grand jury transcript and I haven't heard anything being said now that wasn't part of the original story. Vidal has obviously lost his mind. "Anti-Semitism got poor Polanski. He was also a foreigner. He did not subscribe to American values in the least." Anti-semitism? No doubt there was probably a bit of anti-semitism back then, but to suggest that there aren't legitimate reasons that Polanski should be in jail? American values? I would like to think that it's not just an American value that a 45 year old man should not have sex with a 13 year old. Is he a member of NAMBLA? Vidal is a sick old man. He should slink back into obscurity.
I suppose the comments page really is for the 'fallout', and nothing much can be expected of it, after all, why comment on something one thought was so well done that one could not approach it -
comments on comments however, is where the fun really is -
book burners and people whose little brains are filled to the brim with trivia can't really be expected to read too deeply, and so, like skeet, they make good target practice
ante up boys and girls, take your turn to be shot into smithereens
one reveals more about oneself by writing 'all emotional', and so the poignancy of shooting you down makes it sport, and not slaughter - we feel your heart beat even as it beats its last and we weep for you
most of you should only be so lucky as to get so old and have it even half so together, especially considering what you reveal to us now - to those of us who are able to actually read rather than parrot the words
the free time of under-employment will have had some benefit if Amerika becomes more thoughtful; less time spent to pay for another giant TV screen, et al - perhaps some of that time might be spent thoughtfully?
read the interview again, reflect on the life he has led, think of the failures as well as the few actual triumphs of this nation, be a little less sure of your own passion, find something mindful you could be sure of, hope you make it to his age and aren't senile or at least not as foolish as you are now
this isn't meant so much be a defense of Vidal as a condemnation of small minds speaking too loudly
Bravo, Iolo!
While I'd be the first one to note that I don't agree with Mr. Vidal on any number of specific questions, including a sizable portion of his remarks in this interview, upon reading the school marmish scoldings of the closed (and doubtless near to empty) minded purveyors of all the "smelly little orthodoxies," who pass themselves off as a substitute in lieu of anything remotely akin to an American intelligentsia, I am reminded of the phrase "pearls before swine." The incontinent "Baby Boomer" college girls (of both sexes) are so full of hatred and scorn for anyone who doesn't precisely mouth the inane platitudes of MSNBC and The Huffington Post that...words fail me.
There is no doubt that George W. Bush was one of the very worst, perhaps THE worst, President the USA has ever had, and he goes down in history with such buffoons as Kaiser Wilhelm II and Woodrow Wilson, in terms of having brought down ruination and degeneracy upon his nation, and Western civilization alike. But those people who extrapolate from that the notion Barack Obama is some sort of savior-like figure, and continue to take seriously such childish mantras as "Hope & Change," are the most boring gaggle of self-righteous blowhards I can ever recall having encountered. You people make me so glad I voted for Ralph Nader in the last two elections.
I'm amazed that Americans who imagine themselves to be educated are only dimly aware that Mr. Vidal "wrote some historical novel on Lincoln or something like that." I've only had the good fortune to read three of his novels, but I can well imagine how they stack up against the works of Dan Brown, James Redfield, Tom Clancy, John Grisham, Amy Tan, and the other mass-market crap that you people doubtlessly have recommended to you by Ms. Winfrey and her ilk. I wasn't even born when his novel "Julian" was first published, but I can report its perhaps the greatest American novel of the post-1945 era. Whereas many, if not most of you people, were probably in high school (or further advanced) when it was on the New York Times best seller list. And yet you revel in the fact you've never heard of it. Do you people even read fiction at all, or are you saving yourselves for Rachel Maddow's autobiography?*
*Which is sure to be chock full of fictional accounts.
I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that this effete old man thinks of a 13-year-old rape victim as a "hooker," and that Polanski is being hounded because of hatred of gays (even though Polanski is not gay, apparently). Iolo, I am interested in what someone of your vast intelligence thinks of Gore's view of Polanski.
irony is an oft-abused term, but in this case it fits.
yeah right - hit me up with a quote from SB Cohen, or maybe Beavis and Butthead - they're seniors now too - i want to be impressed
come meet me someday sweetie- if you're not afraid to see how effete you, and your vocabulary, really are
tell us what you know of the 'virgin' 13 year old - go ahead, tell us all you know- we'll wait for you
then tell us where you dropped out from - you needn't include the sordid detail that it was not voluntary
you've heard by now of "the boy and the balloon" - well, for a start, check out the guardians of said '13 y.o virgin' - this is not to smear the then girl, but it is to save a man accused via set-up and gossip such as you indulge in. Is this like chocolate to you?
How very Amerikan! How very idealist! How very informed!
You want vocabulary? Try the word "no". Get back to me after you've looked it up. Oh, and would you mind giving the definition to Roman Polanski?
I love Gore Vidal for his completely unrestricted irreverence! I don't have to agree with him on every point he makes. Whether I do or not is irrelevant. What makes him a national treasure is that he demolishes sanctimony; he blows up hypocrisy; he mocks all the sacred cows; in short, he makes me think. And to the 'offended' who preceed me here, if you can't stand to have your feathers ruffled, stay in the hen house.
Vidal has obviously lost his mind. I do not dislike his irreverence and often find irreverence refreshing, but this is just a senile old man spewing nonsense, it seems, only with the intent of making others look bad. Even if he is of sound mind, he's completely irrelevant and so is most of what he has to say.
to marinaas - hello darling - please give us several obscure facts from 'the entire transcript' to demonstrate to us that indeed you have read it - no one will ask if you understood it, yet.
iolo - you can read it too, in case you haven't already - http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/RomanPolanskiTranscripts.pdf. The pertinent details are inappropriate for discussion on this blog.
From his interview, in Gore Vidal's case it is too loud a mind speaking with a too small a voice. (Small meaning ignoble) Gore Vidal must keep up an image, and his image is to be a front burner as well as a misanthrope. At his advanced age, he sounds like a growling bellyacher instead of the firebrand he was even up to his middle years. He must be made to sound recondite and cunning when to my reality he sounds like a an aging bitter eccentric who will take sides against female children and we are compelled to wonder if that is not the pathology of an old gay man's mindset. To put any semblance of guilt onto the girl child is rank and rancid of character. In my book Gore Vidal is a cipher.
The woman who was the 13 year old girl that Polanski drugged and viciously raped is no longer important nor what she thinks about what happened to her 32 years ago. She would be 45 now. It is also beside the point if her mother, who is equally depraved, sacrificed her daughter for whatever she got from the perverted deed. She will have to live with the self-knowledge that she offered up her child to bestiality. Aside from Polanski's degenerate act, in all other categories it is irrelevant. The man is a monster with his penis, was then, is now. Whatever else happened to him, to his wife Sharon, or anything else, has not even a minor relevance. He is an immoral son-of-a-bitch and I think that is a compliment to his mother. It also describes every man, and woman, who applauds Roman Polanski and who defends him today. He has not paid his price. He needs to be prosecuted in public so that all men know how savage they basically are and underlies how despicable men have been to women throughout history. It must stop and must stop here. His is an indictment for all men and all men who take affront at what I say, ought to think about their own brutal proclivities. It speaks to the pathetic self-perception that men have, perhaps not every man, but almost every man, that they have the right to sex and they have a right to take sex from whomever they choose, whenever they choose. He was merciless to the child, and the world should be merciless to him. It is more than lex talionis, it is justice.
There is no tragedy now, there was a tragedy then. There is a misperception that tragedy lasts forever. It doesn't. Murders and unjustified executions, their tragedies only last for the time of their event. The present is completely nihil ad rem, completely beside the point, incidental. The reality is that a man, Roman Polanski, raped and sexually violated a 13-year old girl. Even the fact that she was 13 is irrelevant. She was a human being who should not have been violated. I quite understand that using the word 'should' is a moral judgment. And this society says it is wrong to violate anyone and especially the gullible and unworldly children. The fact that she was 13 makes it worse. He violated a child and as human beings we are supposed to protect children from predators.
I suggest that those who have young daughters and are excusing and giving shelter Polanski to imagine him raping your child.
like pertinent details are ever inappropriate - gee, i guess that lets you off, ms so clean my poo smells like rose
and, checking, checking - well, it looks like you've been reading a blank page, m'dear - why am i not surprised?
dear sheno- so, you demonstrate you hate men, and probably have castrated a few in your time - that's all you prove
Dear Marinaas - you demonstrate you can look up a link and post it, a non-functional link to a floozy site with lots of half dressed men and women in the ads, - and that's all you prove
none of this proves you have a right let alone a privilege to judge someone else - you are caught in a loop of hysteria - and are trying either to prove to yourself or to someone else that you are worthy - of what, no one can guess
i thought there might be more intelligent dialogue in the comments section of a national mag- but no!
it's just the rant and rave section of craigslist all over - intelligent people quickly tire of hysteria - good luck amongst yourselves reproving the world is indeed flat - we'll all be better for it, i am sure, especially when you go marching off the edge
Let us now speak of despicable women in history, and in the home: cowering before the TV, imagining the wrongs done to them while they do dishes, try on clothes, cook an indigestible dinner . . . and nothing else
OR:
just move off the another page, one where there are blessers and snake handlers and those speaking in tongues- you will fit right in there and will feel the need to convince no one
I must tell you after reading this despicable man's comments about a 13 year old girls rape, I'd like to beat him senseless. However, that would make me a scum like him. One can only hope that his buddy Polanski is treated in the same manner in prison as he treated an innocent child 30 years ago.
In his usual tone of rancid boredom, Mr. Vidal assigns to Edward Kennedy "the cruelelst fate of all--[becoming] unmistakably fat." Alas, Mr. Vidal has lived long enough to share that cruel fate.
In his usual tone of rancid boredom, Mr. Vidal assigns to Ted Kennedy "the cruelest fate of all--[becoming] unmistakably fat." Sadly Mr. Vidal has lived long enough to share that cruel fate.
Perhaps Mr. Vidal would have more sympathy for the 13-year-old girl if she had been Afro-American - or Hilary Clinton.
Hello:
Remember: "Art, like the Alamo, has to draw the line somewhere."
Gene Elder, San Antonio, Texas,
HAPPY Foundation Archives Director
****Dear Galleries and Artists: From San Antonio
Dear Artists and Galleries:
Can we count on you to join us in declaring July 2010 Political Art Month.
Our goal is to alert all galleries across America to devote some thought and time to either political, social or religious subject matter for July. What better month?
Join us now and add your name to the national list.
Thanks Gene Elder, elder4dtomato@yahoo.com
phone 210 732-3238
Forward this message to any galleries and artists around the USA that want to join in.
San Antonio Museum of Contemporary Art:
Directors: Gene Elder and Glenna Park
San Antonio Museum of Modern Art:
Directors: Norman Avila and Don Evans
Correction from above message
elder4tomato@yahoo.com
I always enjoy reading Gore Vidal. May an elixir of youth be discovered that can restore him to whatever his preferred age and physical fitness/sexual vitality! Then he could live forever, happily, and continue to shoot every sacred cow drawn across his path, for the amusement and education of all of us!
I write to make several points.
1) Roman Polanski did not "[plead] guilty to raping a girl", as John Meroney so ignorantly declares (in fact I'm a bit surprised that Gore Vidal did not point out the fallacy of this statement): he pled guilty to having had sex with a 13-year old "girl" - consensual sex. This has not been a crime anywhere in the world until very recently, and is not criminal behavior at all, but normal human behavior. Adults have been having consensual sex with teenagers forever and they are doing it now somewhere in the world as I write this and they will continue to do it until we either evolve beyond our current state of existence as highly sexual beings or we destroy human life on this planet, whichever comes first. This ignorant claim that Polanski "pled guilty to rape" is repeated by every lazy writer in the world who never bothered to read the partially released original documents in the case, as I actually have.
2) Speaking of original documents, I would love to read a complete and unexpurgated copy of the Grand Jury testimony of Samantha Gailey (now Geimer) and everyone else who gave grand jury testimony in the Polanski case. marinaas, posting in reply to this article, claims to have "read the entire grand jury transcript" (!) and later on, provides a link to what is supposed to be a .pdf copy of that transcript. Problem is, that is a dead link; and when I try to use that site's search engine to look for "Roman Polanski" or "Polanski" all I get is 5 old articles, none of which, so far as I can tell, contain the link to the transcript. So, marinaas, please check your information again - and if you do find the complete transcript, post the link to it here. I'd love to read it.
The Smoking Gun website has published a section of Gailey's Grand Jury testimony here, under the lurid and misleading title "Polanski The Predator": http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html I suggest that everyone read it before they make the typical knee-jerk idiotic comments about the case.
Another valuable document is the original 1977 indictment of Polanski. [http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/polanski/1977polanski_findlaw.pdf]
Interestingly, this document backs up Vidal's memory that there was an anti-gay aspect to the case: Polanski is charged with several offenses, including (shudder!) "sodomy on a person"! That is, "he did willfully, unlawfully, and feloniously [sic] commit *the infamous crime against nature* upon the person of a thirteen-year-old girl" - whom the document helpfully points out to be "a human being"! (emphasis added)
Lenin remarked that, particularly in politics, "anyone who simply 'takes another's word for it' is a hopeless idiot." Those who wish to publish their opinions on political topics must be careful to closely evaluate what is being promulgated by the press and politicians before they themselves put their own names to a document or a political cause that they may regret having published or supported once they do even a very cursory investigation into the subject at issue. The case against Roman Polanski is of this type - it is political, as are nearly all the cases against "sexual predators", "child molesters" and "sexual deviants". These cases are being used by politicians of all stripes, not in order to "protect the children", but to further the politicians' own careers. As Gore Vidal so acidly points out, "lying and cheating" are indeed the principal sacred "American Values"; and these two "Great American Values" are employed practically to the exclusion of all else by both right wings of our American single-party political system.*
Varlet
*I can take no credit for this characterization of the US' political system - the credit belongs to Gore Vidal. Thanks again, GV!
Varlet has at least lived up to his moniker: "a base unprincipled person."
If Samantha Geimer's attorney is smart, they will sue Vidal for defamation. That case, in front of a jury, would be a slam dunk for her.
Vidal won't have Esquire to hide behind this time - and it will amount to much more than $255K this time. Maybe Varlet would like to pass the hat for his big mouthed, mysogynist friend?
From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/varlet:
var·let (värlt)
n.
1. An attendant or servant.
2. A knight's page.
3. (Historical Terms) a rascal
[Middle English, from Old French, variant of vaslet; see valet.]
Truly unprincipled people can't even be trusted to give an honest dictionary definition of a simple word.
Vidal won't be sued by Geimer for the same reason that Geimer and her family did everything they could to avoid testifying in an actual criminal trial: her story would not hold up to cross-examination.
She was a sexually active (she herself said she had sex "twice" before this incident), "precocious" (her mother's description) almost 14-year old young woman, dating a 17-year old young man at the time; she admitted to having used quaaludes and alcohol before. Physically mature for her age, she looked somewhere between 17 (said the investigating officer) to well over 20 (Anjelica Huston). She never made any serious attempt to get away from Polanski during the entire incident; a physical examination revealed no evidence of force having been used against her: no bruises, vaginal or anal tearing. She had multiple opportunities to cry for help during and after her "rape", but did not do so; only after her mother had consulted her accountant (!) for advice did she and Samantha contact the police. The Geimer family did not actively seek a prison sentence for Polanski: they in fact pleaded with the court to see to it that Polanski did not receive any prison time... then they turned around and wheedled an out-of-court financial settlement from Polanski, which was substantial enough that the entire Geimer family was able to relocate... to Hawaii!
In marked contrast to the hysterically vindictive public, who today shriek from the mountaintops about how Polanski "got away" with the "rape" of a "girl" and who demand he be imprisoned for life - or worse - Samantha Geimer has actively and publicly sought to have the entire case dropped without any further punishment for Roman Polanski. Why do so many people, with absolutely no personal interest in the case, scream for draconian punishment for Polanski while the so-called "victim" pleads that he be left alone? This is a question that can only be answered, perhaps, by members of the psychiatric profession.
I guess varlet hasn't heard of Merriam Webster - look it up, einstein.
Not surprising, as only a "a base unprincipled person" could, varlet advocates the ad hominem attack of a 13 year old.
News flash! Polanski will spend time more time behind bars! (Unless varlet wants to put money where varlets big mouth is and serve time for him? I'm sure Polanski would like that.)
“If I had killed somebody, it wouldn’t have had so much appeal to the press, you see? But… f—ing, you see, and the young girls. Judges want to f— young girls. Juries want to f— young girls. Everyone wants to f— young girls!” Those were Polanski's comments in 1979. What a bright light! What insight! How could such universal instincts be rape?
As Salon’s Kate Harding cogently argues, "the only reason Polanski was allowed to roam free in Europe for three decades, making 'award-winning' films and vacationing at ski chalets, was because the normal legal rules didn’t apply to him. But they should have. Drugging and raping a child, then leaving the country before you can be sentenced for it, is behavior our society should not—and at least in theory, does not tolerate, no matter how famous, wealthy or well-connected you are."
Defamation would be a point after on this slam dunk.
The sad thing is, varlet is likely a member of the 'psychiatric profession.'
Maybe iolo you have been castrated! You are writing in a soprano voice. You are a liar and cannot show how I demonstrate I hate men. The men I know are real men who find Polanski and Gore Vidal's defense of a rape despicable. When a 43-year old rapes a 13-year old girl, he is criminal regardless of how you or Gore Vidal excuses it or odiously blames the child, or even more absurd, women in history! Now tell us, how many girls have you raped and didn't get caught for it? It is plain from your defensive comments you carry signs of it. Did one of them castrate you? Or maybe you are a gay man who doesn't find rape of women so bad, maybe boys too?
I'm so sorry dear, perhaps i shouldn't have pointed out the obvious about you - it was rude and off point - of course, your intrusions have no place in an intelligent argument of the matter, hysteria has never proved anything except the need of a hysterectomy, and i was just a little curt with you, and I'm sure that each man you disappointed, well, it wasn't purposeful, just absent minded, and I'd like to believe, for each of them, their balls will grow back once they are away from you.
As to your impertinent assumptions, well, your sort of questions always answer themselves as a sort of proof of irrelevance from the source. Think about it, and when you get a headache, take two aspirin and call me in the morning, eh?
and remember, the more you wave your arms, the more right you seem to the stupid - so, you decide how you'd like to appear - vapid doesn't even begin to describe it so far
so, either way, it would be better to examine all facts about this case, rather than restricting ourselves to headlines and innuendo, or making assumptions about each other - surely you are no more irrelevant than i in this matter, unless you were actually a witness who has not come forth ? I think the voices in one's head are seldom the best source of information
Good god, not more, "rape-is-a-male-right!" crusaders. We get enough of those in the U.K.
When Geo. Bush stole the election in 2000.. Gore Vidal predicted he'd leave office the most hated president in American history.
All his other statements have acid and bite and intelligence and irreverence and humor.. Vidal's a national treasure, and light years ahead of all the tiny brains who are always ready to disregard and dismiss anything the people they're unable to grasp.
It is both pathetic and sickening to see, despite his literary contributions, Vidal is, at his core, a bargain basement misogynist.
At least Vidal didn't claim she vandalized a Protestant church in Sharon, Connecticut!
Unfortunately, educuation seldom overcomes gender obsession. Based on these comments, Vidal should be charged as an accessory after the fact. What a pig.
"educuation (sic) seldom overcomes gender obsession" - what does that mean, exactly?
as well, with this you either admit you are still ignorant, or still obsessed (or that it was you who burned a church somewhere); and with such an application of law, you would be liable for any number of crimes you have bloviated about in your life - perhaps you'd better go back into hiding, because the enforcement you seem to hope for is as likely to come after you - or are you auditioning to become Sarah Palin's spokesmodel?
it is really fascinating to see the sinners come out against sin, and sin while they do it
WTF? "Iolo (System Mechanic 7) is the biggest piece of junk I've encountered" Kinda like Iolos post!
Oh trepid
if only you had a better dictionary you would realize how impoverished is Merriam, and how tepid your handle-
your problem is that you reason in a vacuum - you just don't belong in this world: your hand wringing and washing and tortured fantasies about what occurred which say so much more about you than the cogency of your grasp of the facts - grasping indeed - you are so self-righteous that i hope i never see you for i am sure i must be blinded by the chrome, by the pledge, by the mouthwash-
i am sure you thought it was 'ad homonym' before you were corrected - , and you are blowing so hard that your skirts and petticoats are up over your ears and eyes, and you are not Marilyn Monroe. I'm sure you believe every episode of Desperate Housewives and lament the passing of The Guiding LIght more than most - so now the cause in your life is the lynching of a man who admits he had sex with a person he did not know was under age. What envy you must suffer because of this, i can only imagine, but prefer not to, so don't tell us anymore, unless we can make fun of you, for you cannot be serious, just seriously disturbed
p.s. do try one of the finer Oxford Dictionaries, if you really want to know what a word means, and has meant over time, rather than assuming that a word was created only once for you to misuse
"Nearly all the cases against 'sexual predators', 'child molesters' and 'sexual deviants' are political." What a gem.
The pinnacle of sexist histrionics.
Try telling that to the parent of a victim of these "politcal crimes" - in person. Then I would suggest running - extremely fast.
Someone please pass the anti-bacterial soap, there's a misogyny virus afoot in this blog. And abject cowardice.
there's a difference between hating women and not respecting stupid women-
and stupid women who whine are really irritating, at least as irritating as stupid men who pee on the lawn et c - intelligent women don't get all hysterical, aren't afraid of sex and probably run off with men and leave them on the side of the road to find their own way home sometimes
in a world of equality, you, trepid, wouldn't measure up and would bring down significantly the class average
cowardice would cringe in the corner while you rant and shout 'i am woman! hear me whine!'
misogyny would ask you out on a date, with your sister
a virus would ask for a vaccine rather than be in the same room as you
i prefer to point out how ridiculous and hysterical you are - this is neither cowardice nor misogyny- it is intolerance for stupidity, and particular distaste for those who would participate in some sort of mob mentality lynching riotous activity because they are sexually frustrated and repressed -
get a prescription for it if you can't find it in you to meditate, eh?
iolo
When you come off that manic cycle, the prozac lick is on your left. You have definitively traversed beyond audience comprehension.
Sorry that 13 year old wasn't 'intelligent enough' for your boys Roman and Gore. Its always those females who speak up when they are violated who just aren't 'smart' enough!
At least one of those pigs will be spending some well deserved time with his fellow criminals. Be my guest and stand up for those 'well thought out' principles and join him.
It so happens that young hookers have as much right not to be taken advantage of as anyone else. Vidal and others with an interest in history and the larger picture may wish to google the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and check out Article 25, which states that ALL children shall enjoy the same social protection.
Hollywood is just about the only context in which child labor is still legal. The fact that Hollywood unites in defense of Polanski is therefore disturbing enough as it is. Now we have Vidal's telling statement, which rationalizes Polanski's actions with a dismissive reference to the world's oldest profession. Polanski lured the child with the promise of work (a modeling assignment) which turned out to be a lie. The casting couch has been a favored strategy of directors for some time. Here we have a pedophile director who used it on a child. And Hollywood howls on in astonishment, unable to see that all of the civilized world denounces its sense of entitlement to these entrenched aspects of its culture.
As for Vidal, since he is a student of history, perhaps he should consider that his words are those of a man who might be looking to start a children's revolution.
I wonder if perhaps Gore made a gaff about Polanski/Geimer because he was misinformed about the logistics of this actual case. Samantha Geimer, the supposed victim in this case doesn't see herself at all as a "victim" now, thinks the case is ancient history and that Roman Polanski has more than "paid a price" and should be left in peace, along with her. It's the media, the courts and the hysterical public that have painted this whole thing as some horrific crime that it's not and that Polanski is some drooling monster which he isn't. So Mr. Vidal is right about his assessment that no "terrible horrific unspeakable crime" is at hand, he just didn't realize that the so-called victim in this case is completely unwilling to be involved and thinks and further pursuit of Mr. Polanski is persecution. Ms. Geimer is a victim but unfortunately she's a victim of a vindictive legal system, mob hysteria and a complicit media. We live in an era of witch hunts and public persecutions, which are fed by a Prisons for Profit system, a nation of predominantly thoughtless hysterics, a draconian legal system and a combination of peculiar radical bedfellows that have gotten us here. Most Americans have a child-like bi-polar vision of the world, with the perfect, wonderful people on one side (themselves) and evil monsters on the other (anyone they fear, don't recognize, or, more honestly, have some of the flawed human elements they also share but vehemently deny to themselves and others via the persecution/scapegoating of others). Unfortunately this black/white simplistic view, no different than the Jihadist Muslim's, when practiced by the majority, leads to some ugly and dire consequences for society.
Ms. Geimer has stated that what happened to her was not the "most horrific thing ever" that "ruined her life" as the hysterics and sensationalizing media like to claim (though they seem hell bent on ruining her life now to "prove" their point). Regardless, being the supposed victim, who has been a thoughtful adult for quite a number of years, she just wants to live a peaceful, quiet life and does not want to be the unwilling focal point in what she now perceives as ruthless persecution of a man she thinks more than paid for whatever crime and error in judgment he made decades ago. If the victim is supposed to be the one with the rights, the blood thirsty public, judicial system and complicit others are the guilty ones violating her rights today, certainly not Mr. Polanski.
During the period the original incident took place, some three decades ago, was the notable public rise of modern feminism. The most radical elements of the feminist movement presented themselves as predominantly male hating and many within that movement went so far as to claim all sex was a form of rape and rape is somehow on par with, perhaps more horrific than, murder. The vast bulk of other Americans did not see any merit at all in any of these radical views, yet in retrospect, there must be quite a number of those surviving radical feminists who are at least partially quite pleased with Modern America's vilification of most masculine traits and the deification of anything feminine. In short, the Feminization of America has probably exceeded even some of their wildest expectations. Who knew the once scoffed at, man-hating radical feminists of yesteryear would have so many millions of unwitting, fundamentally philosophically opposed supporters today? The radical feminist's general loathing of heterosexual relations along with the fundamental religious shame of sexual relations and America's long-withstanding Puritanical guilt have lead to what you would think are staunchly opposing sides ending up with a shared victory: sex, in any form, is America's big bugaboo. Just look at the meaningless heated debate of gay marriage to see how silly and ridiculous people are in their obsession with other people's affairs. If most heterosexuals end up in so many unhappy unions, shouldn't homosexuals have the same opportunity? A bit of a joke, but you get the idea. Who should care what their gay neighbors want to do? If gay marriage somehow dilutes or impacts your heterosexual marriage then your marriage was not much of one to begin with, was it? It certainly had no real binding strength of its own if what some stranger does completely detached from you “ruins” it. Again, we see that perhaps some peoples obsessions with what others are doing/not doing speaks more volumes about themselves than it does those they point their fingers at.
The point is not to imply that what happened between Mr. Polanski and Ms. Geimer was somehow innocuous or even full consensual but that since the element of sex is involved it is viewed as a monstrous crime due to America’s hysterical preoccupation/shame/persecution of anything sexual. During that same period some thirty years ago when the Polanski/Geimer incident happened there were millions of girls and boys who were bullied and beaten, essentially terrorized by others, usually bigger and older. Thousands upon thousands of those children had lives that were and are far more traumatized, perhaps even “ruined”; more so than even the wildest claims made (unwanted) on behalf of Ms. Geimer, who discredits her “supporters” exaggerations. Why is the public, media, courts, et al not screaming for those bullies/perpetrators to pay for their crimes? Even if there were thousands who had been prosecuted and fled just prior to sentencing (with or without a lying, incompetent judge who reneged on a legal plea agreement for his own self-serving publicity seeking reasons), would the general public, media, and courts be screaming for their blood, that they be extradited from wherever? No, as a rule, they clearly would not. Perhaps it is more than just their own shame/guilt/fear of anything sexual, perhaps there is some envy element of a man who has overcome tremendous personal tragedy to make an enormous success of himself, perhaps it is the vehement, rising and raging anti-Semitism that so much of America enjoys (and a good portion of the world), as it does like so many other pre-Nazi Germany elements? It really doesn’t matter as these concealed motivations are really the personal problems of the real and wannabe persecutors of Mr. Polanski, aren’t they? Too bad they can’t keep their personal problems personal, then perhaps we could have a much kinder, gentler, non-vindictive world that doesn’t need the scapegoating and persecution of others to fill otherwise empty, unhappy lives.
Ironically, the radical feminists and shame filled fundamentalist religious prudes must be simultaneously celebrating and laughing at the commonly accepted modern American notion that sex for teenage girls under eighteen is somehow a life shattering, traumatic, horrific affair when, in blatant reality there are not thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands but millions of teenage girls who are sexually active with the same level of happiness and unhappiness their older female counterparts share. Again, it is obvious the persecution of Mr. Polanski, like all scapegoating and persecuting of others, speaks a lot more for the general psychological health (or lack of it) for those who cry for his blood than it does for Mr. Polanski.
As for Mr. Gore Vidal, a brilliant man of literature and letters who, unlike the general public, is not swayed by any mob mentality which is dogmatic religious, political and other group think; but, being a human (who all make mistakes), he spoke perhaps a little too soon, not knowing the “victim” in this case doesn’t believe the BS the general public, courts and media spout about her victimhood or “need” for bloodletting “justice”. However, his notion of the world’s oldest profession being alive and well was absolutely on target. And America, like virtually all other societies, openly allows and denies the existence of the same behaviors they routinely punish and persecute others for: as long as you use the proper degree of “socially accepted decorum” (lies) your crimes/deeds will be accepted with a nod and wink. In the case of the world’s oldest profession, if you are an honest prostitute and hustle in the streets you are jailed, if you use deception and manipulation to perform your whoring and sexual blackmail to get gifts, favors, money and long term financially and other advantageous unions with rich and/or powerful men you’re touted as smart and ambitious. This socially promoted prostitution works out wonderfully for the countless women who wish to exploit men. If their sexual favors don’t get the desired payoff they anticipated all one need do is scream rape (or some other lie) and they can at least hope for a vengeful victory. Today’s bloodthirsty public and Taliban-like legal system will happily pursue your cause. And though society’s delusions regarding prostitution, which includes an exaggerated notion of feminine “honor”, may not apply to Ms. Geimer, then or now, there is indeed a direct impact from the dangerous, convoluted accompanying falsehoods used to feed and preserve this and associated societal lies onto the Polanski/Geimer case.
So let the real final word in this case come from the victim herself, Samantha Geimer, who said: “It’s been a long time. I don’t wish for him to be held to further punishment or consequences.” Which also means, for her peace and serenity, stay out of ancient affairs that have no impact on all the real issues affecting the modern crumbling American state. Maybe if Americans spent less time going after straw dog issues and addressed their own inner motives for their hysterical reactions to every perceived shadow we could end up with a thoughtful populace that pursues intellectual growth, not a bunch of half-wits running around looking for the latest, most convenient witch they can burn in the hopes of making their personal delusions and demons magically alright.
I wonder if perhaps Gore made a gaff about Polanski/Geimer because he was misinformed about the logistics of this actual case. Samantha Geimer, the supposed victim in this case doesn't see herself at all as a "victim" now, thinks the case is ancient history and that Roman Polanski has more than "paid a price" and should be left in peace, along with her. It's the media, the courts and the hysterical public that have painted this whole thing as some horrific crime that it's not and that Polanski is some drooling monster which he isn't. So Mr. Vidal is right about his assessment that no "terrible horrific unspeakable crime" is at hand, he just didn't realize that the so-called victim in this case is completely unwilling to be involved and thinks and further pursuit of Mr. Polanski is persecution. Ms. Geimer is a victim but unfortunately she's a victim of a vindictive legal system, mob hysteria and a complicit media. We live in an era of witch hunts and public persecutions, which are fed by a Prisons for Profit system, a nation of predominantly thoughtless hysterics, a draconian legal system and a combination of peculiar radical bedfellows that have gotten us here. Most Americans have a child-like bi-polar vision of the world, with the perfect, wonderful people on one side (themselves) and evil monsters on the other (anyone they fear, don't recognize, or, more honestly, have some of the flawed human elements they also share but vehemently deny to themselves and others via the persecution/scapegoating of others). Unfortunately this black/white simplistic view, no different than the Jihadist Muslim's, when practiced by the majority, leads to some ugly and dire consequences for society.
Ms. Geimer has stated that what happened to her was not the "most horrific thing ever" that "ruined her life" as the hysterics and sensationalizing media like to claim (though they seem hell bent on ruining her life now to "prove" their point). Regardless, being the supposed victim, who has been a thoughtful adult for quite a number of years, she just wants to live a peaceful, quiet life and does not want to be the unwilling focal point in what she now perceives as ruthless persecution of a man she thinks more than paid for whatever crime and error in judgment he made decades ago. If the victim is supposed to be the one with the rights, the blood thirsty public, judicial system and complicit others are the guilty ones violating her rights today, certainly not Mr. Polanski.
During the period the original incident took place, some three decades ago, was the notable public rise of modern feminism. The most radical elements of the feminist movement presented themselves as predominantly male hating and many within that movement went so far as to claim all sex was a form of rape and rape is somehow on par with, perhaps more horrific than, murder. The vast bulk of other Americans did not see any merit at all in any of these radical views, yet in retrospect, there must be quite a number of those surviving radical feminists who are at least partially quite pleased with Modern America's vilification of most masculine traits and the deification of anything feminine. In short, the Feminization of America has probably exceeded even some of their wildest expectations. Who knew the once scoffed at, man-hating radical feminists of yesteryear would have so many millions of unwitting, fundamentally philosophically opposed supporters today? The radical feminist's general loathing of heterosexual relations along with the fundamental religious shame of sexual relations and America's long-withstanding Puritanical guilt have lead to what you would think are staunchly opposing sides ending up with a shared victory: sex, in any form, is America's big bugaboo. Just look at the meaningless heated debate of gay marriage to see how silly and ridiculous people are in their obsession with other people's affairs. If most heterosexuals end up in so many unhappy unions, shouldn't homosexuals have the same opportunity? A bit of a joke, but you get the idea. Who should care what their gay neighbors want to do? If gay marriage somehow dilutes or impacts your heterosexual marriage then your marriage was not much of one to begin with, was it? It certainly had no real binding strength of its own if what some stranger does completely detached from you “ruins” it. Again, we see that perhaps some peoples obsessions with what others are doing/not doing speaks more volumes about themselves than it does those they point their fingers at.
The point is not to imply that what happened between Mr. Polanski and Ms. Geimer was somehow innocuous or even full consensual but that since the element of sex is involved it is viewed as a monstrous crime due to America’s hysterical preoccupation/shame/persecution of anything sexual. During that same period some thirty years ago when the Polanski/Geimer incident happened there were millions of girls and boys who were bullied and beaten, essentially terrorized by others, usually bigger and older. Thousands upon thousands of those children had lives that were and are far more traumatized, perhaps even “ruined”; more so than even the wildest claims made (unwanted) on behalf of Ms. Geimer, who discredits her “supporters” exaggerations. Why is the public, media, courts, et al not screaming for those bullies/perpetrators to pay for their crimes? Even if there were thousands who had been prosecuted and fled just prior to sentencing (with or without a lying, incompetent judge who reneged on a legal plea agreement for his own self-serving publicity seeking reasons), would the general public, media, and courts be screaming for their blood, that they be extradited from wherever? No, as a rule, they clearly would not. Perhaps it is more than just their own shame/guilt/fear of anything sexual, perhaps there is some envy element of a man who has overcome tremendous personal tragedy to make an enormous success of himself, perhaps it is the vehement, rising and raging anti-Semitism that so much of America enjoys (and a good portion of the world), as it does like so many other pre-Nazi Germany elements? It really doesn’t matter as these concealed motivations are really the personal problems of the real and wannabe persecutors of Mr. Polanski, aren’t they? Too bad they can’t keep their personal problems personal, then perhaps we could have a much kinder, gentler, non-vindictive world that doesn’t need the scapegoating and persecution of others to fill otherwise empty, unhappy lives.
Ironically, the radical feminists and shame filled fundamentalist religious prudes must be simultaneously celebrating and laughing at the commonly accepted modern American notion that sex for teenage girls under eighteen is somehow a life shattering, traumatic, horrific affair when, in blatant reality there are not thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands but millions of teenage girls who are sexually active with the same level of happiness and unhappiness their older female counterparts share. Again, it is obvious the persecution of Mr. Polanski, like all scapegoating and persecuting of others, speaks a lot more for the general psychological health (or lack of it) for those who cry for his blood than it does for Mr. Polanski.
As for Mr. Gore Vidal, a brilliant man of literature and letters who, unlike the general public, is not swayed by any mob mentality which is dogmatic religious, political and other group think; but, being a human (who all make mistakes), he spoke perhaps a little too soon, not knowing the “victim” in this case doesn’t believe the BS the general public, courts and media spout about her victimhood or “need” for bloodletting “justice”. However, his notion of the world’s oldest profession being alive and well was absolutely on target. And America, like virtually all other societies, openly allows and denies the existence of the same behaviors they routinely punish and persecute others for: as long as you use the proper degree of “socially accepted decorum” (lies) your crimes/deeds will be accepted with a nod and wink. In the case of the world’s oldest profession, if you are an honest prostitute and hustle in the streets you are jailed, if you use deception and manipulation to perform your whoring and sexual blackmail to get gifts, favors, money and long term financially and other advantageous unions with rich and/or powerful men you’re touted as smart and ambitious. This socially promoted prostitution works out wonderfully for the countless women who wish to exploit men. If their sexual favors don’t get the desired payoff they anticipated all one need do is scream rape (or some other lie) and they can at least hope for a vengeful victory. Today’s bloodthirsty public and Taliban-like legal system will happily pursue your cause. And though society’s delusions regarding prostitution, which includes an exaggerated notion of feminine “honor”, may not apply to Ms. Geimer, then or now, there is indeed a direct impact from the dangerous, convoluted accompanying falsehoods used to feed and preserve this and associated societal lies onto the Polanski/Geimer case.
So let the real final word in this case come from the victim herself, Samantha Geimer, who said: “It’s been a long time. I don’t wish for him to be held to further punishment or consequences.” Which also means, for her peace and serenity, stay out of ancient affairs that have no impact on all the real issues affecting the modern crumbling American state. Maybe if Americans spent less time going after straw dog issues and addressed their own inner motives for their hysterical reactions to every perceived shadow we could end up with a thoughtful populace that pursues intellectual growth, not a bunch of half-wits running around looking for the latest, most convenient witch they can burn in the hopes of making their personal delusions and demons magically alright.
I wonder if perhaps Gore made a gaff about Polanski/Geimer because he was misinformed about the logistics of this actual case. Samantha Geimer, the supposed victim in this case doesn't see herself at all as a "victim" now, thinks the case is ancient history and that Roman Polanski has more than "paid a price" and should be left in peace, along with her. It's the media, the courts and the hysterical public that have painted this whole thing as some horrific crime that it's not and that Polanski is some drooling monster which he isn't. So Mr. Vidal is right about his assessment that no "terrible horrific unspeakable crime" is at hand, he just didn't realize that the so-called victim in this case is completely unwilling to be involved and thinks and further pursuit of Mr. Polanski is persecution. Ms. Geimer is a victim but unfortunately she's a victim of a vindictive legal system, mob hysteria and a complicit media. We live in an era of witch hunts and public persecutions, which are fed by a Prisons for Profit system, a nation of predominantly thoughtless hysterics, a draconian legal system and a combination of peculiar radical bedfellows that have gotten us here. Most Americans have a child-like bi-polar vision of the world, with the perfect, wonderful people on one side (themselves) and evil monsters on the other (anyone they fear, don't recognize, or, more honestly, have some of the flawed human elements they also share but vehemently deny to themselves and others via the persecution/scapegoating of others). Unfortunately this black/white simplistic view, no different than the Jihadist Muslim's, when practiced by the majority, leads to some ugly and dire consequences for society.
Ms. Geimer has stated that what happened to her was not the "most horrific thing ever" that "ruined her life" as the hysterics and sensationalizing media like to claim (though they seem hell bent on ruining her life now to "prove" their point). Regardless, being the supposed victim, who has been a thoughtful adult for quite a number of years, she just wants to live a peaceful, quiet life and does not want to be the unwilling focal point in what she now perceives as ruthless persecution of a man she thinks more than paid for whatever crime and error in judgment he made decades ago. If the victim is supposed to be the one with the rights, the blood thirsty public, judicial system and complicit others are the guilty ones violating her rights today, certainly not Mr. Polanski.
During the period the original incident took place, some three decades ago, was the notable public rise of modern feminism. The most radical elements of the feminist movement presented themselves as predominantly male hating and many within that movement went so far as to claim all sex was a form of rape and rape is somehow on par with, perhaps more horrific than, murder. The vast bulk of other Americans did not see any merit at all in any of these radical views, yet in retrospect, there must be quite a number of those surviving radical feminists who are at least partially quite pleased with Modern America's vilification of most masculine traits and the deification of anything feminine. In short, the Feminization of America has probably exceeded even some of their wildest expectations. Who knew the once scoffed at, man-hating radical feminists of yesteryear would have so many millions of unwitting, fundamentally philosophically opposed supporters today? The radical feminist's general loathing of heterosexual relations along with the fundamental religious shame of sexual relations and America's long-withstanding Puritanical guilt have lead to what you would think are staunchly opposing sides ending up with a shared victory: sex, in any form, is America's big bugaboo. Just look at the meaningless heated debate of gay marriage to see how silly and ridiculous people are in their obsession with other people's affairs. If most heterosexuals end up in so many unhappy unions, shouldn't homosexuals have the same opportunity? A bit of a joke, but you get the idea. Who should care what their gay neighbors want to do? If gay marriage somehow dilutes or impacts your heterosexual marriage then your marriage was not much of one to begin with, was it? It certainly had no real binding strength of its own if what some stranger does completely detached from you “ruins” it. Again, we see that perhaps some peoples obsessions with what others are doing/not doing speaks more volumes about themselves than it does those they point their fingers at.
The point is not to imply that what happened between Mr. Polanski and Ms. Geimer was somehow innocuous or even full consensual but that since the element of sex is involved it is viewed as a monstrous crime due to America’s hysterical preoccupation/shame/persecution of anything sexual. During that same period some thirty years ago when the Polanski/Geimer incident happened there were millions of girls and boys who were bullied and beaten, essentially terrorized by others, usually bigger and older. Thousands upon thousands of those children had lives that were and are far more traumatized, perhaps even “ruined”; more so than even the wildest claims made (unwanted) on behalf of Ms. Geimer, who discredits her “supporters” exaggerations. Why is the public, media, courts, et al not screaming for those bullies/perpetrators to pay for their crimes? Even if there were thousands who had been prosecuted and fled just prior to sentencing (with or without a lying, incompetent judge who reneged on a legal plea agreement for his own self-serving publicity seeking reasons), would the general public, media, and courts be screaming for their blood, that they be extradited from wherever? No, as a rule, they clearly would not. Perhaps it is more than just their own shame/guilt/fear of anything sexual, perhaps there is some envy element of a man who has overcome tremendous personal tragedy to make an enormous success of himself, perhaps it is the vehement, rising and raging anti-Semitism that so much of America enjoys (and a good portion of the world), as it does like so many other pre-Nazi Germany elements? It really doesn’t matter as these concealed motivations are really the personal problems of the real and wannabe persecutors of Mr. Polanski, aren’t they? Too bad they can’t keep their personal problems personal, then perhaps we could have a much kinder, gentler, non-vindictive world that doesn’t need the scapegoating and persecution of others to fill otherwise empty, unhappy lives.
Ironically, the radical feminists and shame filled fundamentalist religious prudes must be simultaneously celebrating and laughing at the commonly accepted modern American notion that sex for teenage girls under eighteen is somehow a life shattering, traumatic, horrific affair when, in blatant reality there are not thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands but millions of teenage girls who are sexually active with the same level of happiness and unhappiness their older female counterparts share. Again, it is obvious the persecution of Mr. Polanski, like all scapegoating and persecuting of others, speaks a lot more for the general psychological health (or lack of it) for those who cry for his blood than it does for Mr. Polanski.
As for Mr. Gore Vidal, a brilliant man of literature and letters who, unlike the general public, is not swayed by any mob mentality which is dogmatic religious, political and other group think; but, being a human (who all make mistakes), he spoke perhaps a little too soon, not knowing the “victim” in this case doesn’t believe the BS the general public, courts and media spout about her victimhood or “need” for bloodletting “justice”. However, his notion of the world’s oldest profession being alive and well was absolutely on target. And America, like virtually all other societies, openly allows and denies the existence of the same behaviors they routinely punish and persecute others for: as long as you use the proper degree of “socially accepted decorum” (lies) your crimes/deeds will be accepted with a nod and wink. In the case of the world’s oldest profession, if you are an honest prostitute and hustle in the streets you are jailed, if you use deception and manipulation to perform your whoring and sexual blackmail to get gifts, favors, money and long term financially and other advantageous unions with rich and/or powerful men you’re touted as smart and ambitious. This socially promoted prostitution works out wonderfully for the countless women who wish to exploit men. If their sexual favors don’t get the desired payoff they anticipated all one need do is scream rape (or some other lie) and they can at least hope for a vengeful victory. Today’s bloodthirsty public and Taliban-like legal system will happily pursue your cause. And though society’s delusions regarding prostitution, which includes an exaggerated notion of feminine “honor”, may not apply to Ms. Geimer, then or now, there is indeed a direct impact from the dangerous, convoluted accompanying falsehoods used to feed and preserve this and associated societal lies onto the Polanski/Geimer case.
So let the real final word in this case come from the victim herself, Samantha Geimer, who said: “It’s been a long time. I don’t wish for him to be held to further punishment or consequences.” Which also means, for her peace and serenity, stay out of ancient affairs that have no impact on all the real issues affecting the modern crumbling American state. Maybe if Americans spent less time going after straw dog issues and addressed their own inner motives for their hysterical reactions to every perceived shadow we could end up with a thoughtful populace that pursues intellectual growth, not a bunch of half-wits running around looking for the latest, most convenient witch they can burn in the hopes of making their personal delusions and demons magically alright.
I wonder if perhaps Gore made a gaff about Polanski/Geimer because he was misinformed about the logistics of this actual case. Samantha Geimer, the supposed victim in this case doesn't see herself at all as a "victim" now, thinks the case is ancient history and that Roman Polanski has more than "paid a price" and should be left in peace, along with her. It's the media, the courts and the hysterical public that have painted this whole thing as some horrific crime that it's not and that Polanski is some drooling monster which he isn't. So Mr. Vidal is right about his assessment that no "terrible horrific unspeakable crime" is at hand, he just didn't realize that the so-called victim in this case is completely unwilling to be involved and thinks and further pursuit of Mr. Polanski is persecution. Ms. Geimer is a victim but unfortunately she's a victim of a vindictive legal system, mob hysteria and a complicit media. We live in an era of witch hunts and public persecutions, which are fed by a Prisons for Profit system, a nation of predominantly thoughtless hysterics, a draconian legal system and a combination of peculiar radical bedfellows that have gotten us here. Most Americans have a child-like bi-polar vision of the world, with the perfect, wonderful people on one side (themselves) and evil monsters on the other (anyone they fear, don't recognize, or, more honestly, have some of the flawed human elements they also share but vehemently deny to themselves and others via the persecution/scapegoating of others). Unfortunately this black/white simplistic view, no different than the Jihadist Muslim's, when practiced by the majority, leads to some ugly and dire consequences for society.
Ms. Geimer has stated that what happened to her was not the "most horrific thing ever" that "ruined her life" as the hysterics and sensationalizing media like to claim (though they seem hell bent on ruining her life now to "prove" their point). Regardless, being the supposed victim, who has been a thoughtful adult for quite a number of years, she just wants to live a peaceful, quiet life and does not want to be the unwilling focal point in what she now perceives as ruthless persecution of a man she thinks more than paid for whatever crime and error in judgment he made decades ago. If the victim is supposed to be the one with the rights, the blood thirsty public, judicial system and complicit others are the guilty ones violating her rights today, certainly not Mr. Polanski.
During the period the original incident took place, some three decades ago, was the notable public rise of modern feminism. The most radical elements of the feminist movement presented themselves as predominantly male hating and many within that movement went so far as to claim all sex was a form of rape and rape is somehow on par with, perhaps more horrific than, murder. The vast bulk of other Americans did not see any merit at all in any of these radical views, yet in retrospect, there must be quite a number of those surviving radical feminists who are at least partially quite pleased with Modern America's vilification of most masculine traits and the deification of anything feminine. In short, the Feminization of America has probably exceeded even some of their wildest expectations. Who knew the once scoffed at, man-hating radical feminists of yesteryear would have so many millions of unwitting, fundamentally philosophically opposed supporters today? The radical feminist's general loathing of heterosexual relations along with the fundamental religious shame of sexual relations and America's long-withstanding Puritanical guilt have lead to what you would think are staunchly opposing sides ending up with a shared victory: sex, in any form, is America's big bugaboo. Just look at the meaningless heated debate of gay marriage to see how silly and ridiculous people are in their obsession with other people's affairs. If most heterosexuals end up in so many unhappy unions, shouldn't homosexuals have the same opportunity? A bit of a joke, but you get the idea. Who should care what their gay neighbors want to do? If gay marriage somehow dilutes or impacts your heterosexual marriage then your marriage was not much of one to begin with, was it? It certainly had no real binding strength of its own if what some stranger does completely detached from you “ruins” it. Again, we see that perhaps some peoples obsessions with what others are doing/not doing speaks more volumes about themselves than it does those they point their fingers at.
The point is not to imply that what happened between Mr. Polanski and Ms. Geimer was somehow innocuous or even full consensual but that since the element of sex is involved it is viewed as a monstrous crime due to America’s hysterical preoccupation/shame/persecution of anything sexual. During that same period some thirty years ago when the Polanski/Geimer incident happened there were millions of girls and boys who were bullied and beaten, essentially terrorized by others, usually bigger and older. Thousands upon thousands of those children had lives that were and are far more traumatized, perhaps even “ruined”; more so than even the wildest claims made (unwanted) on behalf of Ms. Geimer, who discredits her “supporters” exaggerations. Why is the public, media, courts, et al not screaming for those bullies/perpetrators to pay for their crimes? Even if there were thousands who had been prosecuted and fled just prior to sentencing (with or without a lying, incompetent judge who reneged on a legal plea agreement for his own self-serving publicity seeking reasons), would the general public, media, and courts be screaming for their blood, that they be extradited from wherever? No, as a rule, they clearly would not. Perhaps it is more than just their own shame/guilt/fear of anything sexual, perhaps there is some envy element of a man who has overcome tremendous personal tragedy to make an enormous success of himself, perhaps it is the vehement, rising and raging anti-Semitism that so much of America enjoys (and a good portion of the world), as it does like so many other pre-Nazi Germany elements? It really doesn’t matter as these concealed motivations are really the personal problems of the real and wannabe persecutors of Mr. Polanski, aren’t they? Too bad they can’t keep their personal problems personal, then perhaps we could have a much kinder, gentler, non-vindictive world that doesn’t need the scapegoating and persecution of others to fill otherwise empty, unhappy lives.
Ironically, the radical feminists and shame filled fundamentalist religious prudes must be simultaneously celebrating and laughing at the commonly accepted modern American notion that sex for teenage girls under eighteen is somehow a life shattering, traumatic, horrific affair when, in blatant reality there are not thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands but millions of teenage girls who are sexually active with the same level of happiness and unhappiness their older female counterparts share. Again, it is obvious the persecution of Mr. Polanski, like all scapegoating and persecuting of others, speaks a lot more for the general psychological health (or lack of it) for those who cry for his blood than it does for Mr. Polanski.
As for Mr. Gore Vidal, a brilliant man of literature and letters who, unlike the general public, is not swayed by any mob mentality which is dogmatic religious, political and other group think; but, being a human (who all make mistakes), he spoke perhaps a little too soon, not knowing the “victim” in this case doesn’t believe the BS the general public, courts and media spout about her victimhood or “need” for bloodletting “justice”. However, his notion of the world’s oldest profession being alive and well was absolutely on target. And America, like virtually all other societies, openly allows and denies the existence of the same behaviors they routinely punish and persecute others for: as long as you use the proper degree of “socially accepted decorum” (lies) your crimes/deeds will be accepted with a nod and wink. In the case of the world’s oldest profession, if you are an honest prostitute and hustle in the streets you are jailed, if you use deception and manipulation to perform your whoring and sexual blackmail to get gifts, favors, money and long term financially and other advantageous unions with rich and/or powerful men you’re touted as smart and ambitious. This socially promoted prostitution works out wonderfully for the countless women who wish to exploit men. If their sexual favors don’t get the desired payoff they anticipated all one need do is scream rape (or some other lie) and they can at least hope for a vengeful victory. Today’s bloodthirsty public and Taliban-like legal system will happily pursue your cause. And though society’s delusions regarding prostitution, which includes an exaggerated notion of feminine “honor”, may not apply to Ms. Geimer, then or now, there is indeed a direct impact from the dangerous, convoluted accompanying falsehoods used to feed and preserve this and associated societal lies onto the Polanski/Geimer case.
So let the real final word in this case come from the victim herself, Samantha Geimer, who said: “It’s been a long time. I don’t wish for him to be held to further punishment or consequences.” Which also means, for her peace and serenity, stay out of ancient affairs that have no impact on all the real issues affecting the modern crumbling American state. Maybe if Americans spent less time going after straw dog issues and addressed their own inner motives for their hysterical reactions to every perceived shadow we could end up with a thoughtful populace that pursues intellectual growth, not a bunch of half-wits running around looking for the latest, most convenient witch they can burn in the hopes of making their personal delusions and demons magically alright.
Ooops! Firefox got stuck in a java-script reboot. Sorry for the multiple posts of the same thing.
I've copied and pasted below a statement I posted elsewhere shortly after Polanski was arrested:
I'm delighted that Polanski has finally been arrested; this case has made my blood boil for years. The passage of time and the victim's forgiveness are not valid reasons for him to escape his sentence. The passage of time does not erase guilt; that's why we hope cold case files, for example, are revisited rather than thrown in the garbage. The victim may have an individual psychological need to forgive him for her own well-being; that is her business. Polanski's crime, however, was not solely a crime against her as an individual. Keep in mind the distinction between civil and criminal law. Drugging a minor in order to have intercourse with her while she is incapacitated is a crime against the fabric of society. The plaintiff in a criminal case is not the victim, but the state. The state is entrusted by the people with the responsibility of bringing him to justice. Let him serve his sentence, and then be forgiven.
Here's another interesting quote of Vidal's, from page 16 of his 2006 memoir Point to Point Navigation:
"...my generation of prepubescents understood at the deepest level the roots--the flowers, too--of the French Revolution."
what some people's imaginations lead them to believe is logic defiant and makes one wonder if we did not evolve but are doomed to be this way forever- little mental suicides to try to live up to imagined rules and hold others to account rather than somehow retaining more privately their "purity"
-i don't know what - build disneyland in your own back yard and if everybody comes to see it maybe you've got something
But-there is no principle which upholds vindictiveness
indeed such is said to more often be vice than either just or wise