While we're at it: Why has the GOP collapsed in rural upstate New York but not in rural central Pennsylvania? I know there are cultural differences between the two (Yankee vs. Scots-Irish) but it's a striking divide nonetheless.
« NY 23, Palin 0, Erick Erickson 1 | Main | The Fed Gets It. And What Was the Best Thing Bush Did? »
Nov 4 2009, 4:15 pm by Marc Ambinder
The Great Political Sort Continues
While we're at it: Why has the GOP collapsed in rural upstate New York but not in rural central Pennsylvania? I know there are cultural differences between the two (Yankee vs. Scots-Irish) but it's a striking divide nonetheless.
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Marc:
Pennsylvania has Catholics.
I think it's actually that simple. In rural Pennsylvania, the social issues still resonate. In upstate New York, they've lost most of their force, such that a pro-choice, pro-marriage equality candidate seemed like the best hope of the GOP.
Don't forget that the Republican candidate was actually considered by DailyKos to be more liberal than the Democratic candidate.
It's pretty common for NY Republicans to be pro-choice, and for Upstate Democrats to be more conservative and pro-life than NY Republicans. I don't think any of them are actually socialists. Scozzafava was about middle of the road for a NY Republican Assembly member.
New York's just joining its New England brethren (click "House Results". New England doesn't have a single GOP congressman, and New York is down to two.
Having lived in New England for 50 years (and Oklahoma for two), I attribute the GOP attrition primarily to the deep cultural divide in the country. Rural New England and New York can be nearly as conservative as the rural south. The rise of the religious right in the GOP is what is so off-putting to what is left of moderate Republicans such as myself. I'm looking for a new party. Know of any?
Really? Ballot initiatives to overturn same-sex marriage pass in two states that elected Obama with 61% (California) and 58% (Maine) of the vote, and it's social conservatism that's killing the GOP? I hear that refrain a lot, but I haven't seen much support for it.
It's simple.
While the "issue" may win, the candidates do not.
A Rick Santorum-chest beating- type of social conservative would not win a large vote above the Mason-Dixon line in the East.
Upstate NY is not the South. Support for church involvement in government is undermined by the knowledge that the Catholics and Jews are the dominant religious group. The dominant rural religious group is Methodist (and pro-choice), and even the Upstate Catholic bishops avoid the "abortion is the only issue" stance of some other bishops. NY Republican leaders rarely raise the abortion issue, not even to pander.
Statewide Republican leadership has been weak at least since George Pataki's first campaign. The last Republican Senate Majority Leader (the second most powerful position on NY government) has been indicted, and the last Republican US Senator form NY is rumored to support Andrew Cuomo for governor. Why would anyone be surprised that the Southern based Republicans are losing Upstate NY?
A couple thoughts. First, many of the people living in New England have moved to the south to find work and not pay exorbitant taxes. I expect after the next census, many of the 'seats' will move south as well. Second, I think too much is made of the loss. Its hard to fight a civil war and win an election in a five week time period. That Hoffman did as well as he did is extraordinary. The stimulus package is one big stick propping up blue states, large cities, and inefficient governments. This situation is not sustainable. There will be a massive shift from leftist democrat policies to the Republican party. The voters will see that the Republicans were right in their assessment of Democrats as out of control, nutty spenders and vitriolic ideologues.
I am no expert on Yankees, but they seem like control freaks. I doubt there is much space for someone that thinks differently than the local control group, to make much headway in changing the communities views. Historically, many Scots and Scots-Irish settled in New England. as economic opportunity disappeared, they moved west. Horace Greeley (Scots-Irish himself) famously said "move west young man".